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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptics are an episode

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number 486 for the 11th of February 2018

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richardsaunders here with you from

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Sydney Australia and I'm almost over the

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wretched skeptic cold flu / man flu /

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whatever the hell it was I think you can

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hear my voice it's not quite there yet

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but well 90% and that's better than

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nothing coming up on this week's show

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gonna kick off with an old friend of

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mine professor Paul Willis who is the

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CEO of media engagement services Paul is

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going to be talking to us about his

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opinion on the religious freedom review

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the review currently under way now Paul

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has very strong opinions on this as

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you'll hear in his segment and he makes

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the case that religion should keep its

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nose out of politics in a big way a

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piece of his mind with Professor Paul

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Willis coming up at the top of the show

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then after that we are interviewing bill

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Nouveau from Canada a magician and a

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skeptic a skeptic with a keen eye

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because he was watching a show called

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the Dragons Den similar to the shark

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tank and he noticed some old applied

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kinesiology tricks he wrote into the

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Canadian no TV network

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CBC protesting and they had him on the

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marketplace show to follow up a good

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lesson for skeptics everywhere bill

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didn't sit back and groan he actually

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took action ended up on TV and will

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you'll hear the rest later on the show

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when we interview magician and skeptic

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bill Nouveau then it's Heidi Robinson

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back again the raw skeptic with a tale

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of diphtheria now there's a word you

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don't hear much anymore diphtheria like

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cholera and these sort of things things

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that you might think of from history a

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report about diphtheria a strange thing

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to be reporting about in 2018 with Heidi

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Robertson then to round off the show

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more medical lunacy a report from Sydney

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Morning Herald

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an opinion piece by dr. ken Harvey about

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some of the ridiculous indications being

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considered by the Therapeutic Goods

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Administration you haven't heard

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anything yet folks this is worse than a

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match Brothers movie in fact I think

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Groucho Marx would make a better doctor

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and she was a doctor in one of his

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movies dr. Quackenbush I think lunacy

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from the Therapeutic Goods

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Administration to round off this episode

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of the skeptic zone now I notice over at

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Maynard Comte you may not spur do Singh

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more podcasts with Tim Ferguson Banga

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Banga bus Maynard's own planet Maynard

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podcasts in fact they were just recently

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the subject of another podcast in the

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States which reviews other podcasts but

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of course they gave Banga Banga a

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favorable review if you don't listen to

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planet Maynard head over to Maynard

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uncom dot a you for lots of laughs but

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now it's time for me to run downstairs

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have some more tea with honey and ginger

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ginger tea with honey or is it honey tea

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with ginger something like that taking

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care not to trip over the cat's who are

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waiting outside the door because they

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were too noisy in here before they can

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see their shadows isn't that like a

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horror movie when you look under a door

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crack and you can see the shadows or

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something moving outside well it's only

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the sceptic zone cats maybe they want

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their dinner mmm well I run downstairs I

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a piece of his mind

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with Professor Paul Willis

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[Music]

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I want to start this little rant by

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clearly stating I have no problems with

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anyone believing whatever they like no

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religion is too weird

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no cult too loopy that if someone wants

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to follow those beliefs Who am I to stop

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them go right ahead knock yourself out

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with your spiritual journey of

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self-discovery you can even drop me the

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occasional postcard from your travels

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and let me know hey getting along I'm

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happy for you but don't expect me to

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join you there are only three caveats I

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have around religions and belief your

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beliefs must not harm you or others you

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have no right to impose your belief on

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anyone else and all of your beliefs and

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practices must conform to the secular

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law of this country that is what

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secularism is all about freedom of

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religion but also freedom from religion

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personally I have no beliefs I don't

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think that belief is a particularly

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useful way to gain knowledge to me

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belief is about accepting a proposition

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without evidence and that is a complete

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anathema to me I consider myself a

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rationalist I only accept what the

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evidence tells me to accept so bereft of

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evidence beliefs don't even enter into

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my equations given my three caveats

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around beliefs I get very angry when I

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see various churches and other religious

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groups wanting to act outside of the

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secular laws of this country claims for

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such actions are usually put forward

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under the name of religious freedom but

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such actions are in fact usually quite

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the opposite religious freedom is the

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freedom to choose what religion you want

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to follow and to involve yourself in the

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practices of that religion freedom from

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religion means that you should not have

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to put up with the doctrines or

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practices of religions that you don't

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agree with the latest kerfuffle about

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religious freedom

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centers around the Ruddick review this

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was set up to appease some of the more

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strident churches and religious groups

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after the gay marriage debate concluded

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late last year their contention is that

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their religious freedom will be affected

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if they are forced to recognize gay

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marriage what they're seeking is the

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right to operate outside of secular laws

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of Australia specifically they want

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exemptions around Australia's

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international obligations as well as

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state and federal laws concerning

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freedom of thought conscience and

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religious belief they want the rights to

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discriminate ironically they already

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have that as pointed out in a 2015

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submission from the Law Council of

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Australia to the then Human Rights

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Commissioner Tim Wilson there are

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already strong protections for freedom

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of religion in Australia to quote from

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that submission under some state and

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territory anti-discrimination laws if

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there is a conflict between religious

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freedom and equality before the law the

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right to discriminate on religious

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grounds

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may be justified but only when and if

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necessary so what the law Council of

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Australia is saying there is that

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religions already have the right to

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discriminate contrary to common law of

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Australia why should any group be they

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religious or otherwise be given special

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privileges above secular law as we have

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seen from the Royal Commission into the

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institutional abuse of children that is

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a very dangerous thing to do the Royal

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Commission revealed a gut-wrenching

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litany of child abuse across many

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churches and other religious

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institutions in many cases the clergy

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didn't even realize they were acting

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outside of the law and in no case did

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the church leaders take the offenders to

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the police plainly they were putting

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Church law above common law

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and it got worse when the

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recommendations of the Commission were

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finally released one of those

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recommendations was that the doctrine of

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the Catholic Church around the sanctity

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of the confessional should be revised in

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other words if a priest hears a

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confession of sexual abuse of a child

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they should report it to the authorities

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predictably instead of the Catholic

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Church giving careful consideration of

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this and other recommendations from the

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Commission they came out swinging that

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this was an abuse of their religious

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freedom some clerics even came out and

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said they would rather go to jail than

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break the seal of the confessional I

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would think that if any crime is covered

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up under the guise of religious freedom

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then a jail term is probably the correct

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punishment that is not an expression of

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religious freedom it is aiding and

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abetting a crime no laws should be

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suspended at the door of the

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confessional so this is why I and so

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many other people are getting steamed up

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about the Ruddick review I'm an

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ambassador for the national secular

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Lobby a group who promotes secular

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policy in Australia we put in a

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submission to the Radek review that

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basically said there are already too

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many protections of religion and that

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all religious practices ought to be

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brought back into accord with Australian

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law but most of the other submissions

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have been from religious groups arguing

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for more protection of what they see as

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their religious freedoms the freedom to

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discriminate the freedom to act in

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secrecy the freedom to act outside of

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the law while that voice must be heard

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in a free and fair society that path

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must not be followed get religion out of

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Australian politics bring all religions

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back to being law-abiding organisations

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we the non-religious are only asking the

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religious to act with decency and

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clarity those are supposed to be the

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domains of the religions why can't they

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[Music]

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submissions for the erotic review closed

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this Wednesday if you want your opinion

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just heard Google religious freedom

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review or just click link in this week's

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show notes dr. Kyle Kyle Chris was he

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proud to be skeptic and you can find out

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more about me at dr. Kyle calm and get

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[Music]

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and joining me now all the way from

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Windsor Ontario Canada it sounds like a

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great place to be especially this time

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of year nice and cold I bet it's bill

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Nouveau hello bill hello nice to catch

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up with you and before we get started on

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the topic which is the TV show in Canada

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called the Dragons Den internationally

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that's got other variations in Australia

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that's known as the shark tank but it's

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more or less the same thing we'll get to

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that soon can you tell our audience a

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little bit about yourself a bit of a bit

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about your background and your scam

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busting activities

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well let's start off with um by trade

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profession a magician I do magic a

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little bit of juggling I even do a

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little bit of a DJ work as well I

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started when I was like seven years old

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performing and it's now like what 35

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years later performing for a while and I

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guess boat I know 12 13 years ago is a

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you know I was exposed more to James

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Randi and also with Penn & Teller with

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their [\h__\h] episodes right so just a

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whole accumulation of that and you know

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I just started really researching into

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you know what magicians have done in

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debunking scam so I kind of basically

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got inspired from them I think a lot of

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people have the same story in the

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skeptical industry I certainly was

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inspired by the works of James James

278
00:14:01,500 --> 00:13:58,660
Randi and many people are of course but

279
00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:01,510
I noticed he's got a long career he's

280
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:04,000
still going good yeah yeah for sure

281
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:07,360
and I noticed you've even set up I guess

282
00:14:14,189 --> 00:14:09,250
it's your your own site which is called

283
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:14,199
scam busting yeah I started that a few

284
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:18,160
years ago because I was debunking things

285
00:14:23,699 --> 00:14:20,079
like online on social media and stuff

286
00:14:25,889 --> 00:14:23,709
like that and my girlfriend and

287
00:14:27,780 --> 00:14:25,899
suggested that once you write up a blog

288
00:14:29,170 --> 00:14:27,790
you know put all those thoughts into a

289
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:29,180
blog maybe you know other people

290
00:14:33,730 --> 00:14:31,010
we'll see it and I was like you know

291
00:14:35,710 --> 00:14:33,740
that's a good idea you know to help you

292
00:14:38,530 --> 00:14:35,720
know teach other people what the what to

293
00:14:40,450 --> 00:14:38,540
look out for absolutely I think it's a

294
00:14:42,340 --> 00:14:40,460
good thing to share your knowledge I'll

295
00:14:44,620 --> 00:14:42,350
link to this website folks in the show

296
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:44,630
notes but it's called scam busting 101

297
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:47,570
and what I also do is I'll link to your

298
00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:49,760
other website which is Nouveau

299
00:14:53,950 --> 00:14:51,350
entertainment that's all really about

300
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:53,960
you and how people can I guess engage

301
00:14:59,560 --> 00:14:57,680
your services yeah yeah for sure well

302
00:15:03,160 --> 00:14:59,570
let's get to the topic in hand now some

303
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:03,170
weeks ago I noticed online and it may

304
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:05,680
have been you who alerted me to this

305
00:15:13,210 --> 00:15:08,000
although I must admit several people did

306
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:13,220
on the Canadian show on the CBC network

307
00:15:17,050 --> 00:15:15,680
it's called Dragons Den and for those of

308
00:15:18,910 --> 00:15:17,060
you who don't know this is the sort of

309
00:15:21,070 --> 00:15:18,920
show where they get these business

310
00:15:23,260 --> 00:15:21,080
entrepreneurs sitting around and people

311
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:23,270
come up and pitch ideas to them in the

312
00:15:28,750 --> 00:15:25,370
hopes that the entrepreneurs will fund

313
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:28,760
their their scheme in exchange for a

314
00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:31,370
piece of the action so they'll give them

315
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,310
$10,000 but I expect a certain amount of

316
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:36,320
the profits or whatever it is it's a bit

317
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:39,170
of a wheeling dealing situation and so

318
00:15:45,450 --> 00:15:41,330
some weeks ago an episode aired in

319
00:15:50,530 --> 00:15:45,460
Canada where a chiropractor came on and

320
00:15:53,740 --> 00:15:50,540
tried to convince the the Dragons now

321
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:53,750
he's wonderful new invention bill maybe

322
00:15:58,420 --> 00:15:55,370
you can fill us in a little bit about

323
00:16:00,760 --> 00:15:58,430
that yeah I believe that episode was

324
00:16:04,810 --> 00:16:00,770
really December I think it was ah right

325
00:16:08,950 --> 00:16:04,820
right yeah and yeah when I saw it I was

326
00:16:10,570 --> 00:16:08,960
I was in shock is there's no other way

327
00:16:12,580 --> 00:16:10,580
to say I mean when I even children my

328
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:12,590
girlfriend she just stood mouth open

329
00:16:16,060 --> 00:16:14,000
gaping dis going like she couldn't

330
00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:16,070
believe that they fell for this thing

331
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:18,110
but basically yeah it aired in this

332
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:20,480
chiropractor was demonstrating these

333
00:16:28,990 --> 00:16:24,880
clips which he claimed had some sort of

334
00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:29,000
quantum mystical force that made you you

335
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:31,190
know be better balanced or stronger in

336
00:16:39,220 --> 00:16:33,440
various other claims or as they even

337
00:16:42,070 --> 00:16:39,230
said on the show more athletic is very

338
00:16:42,580 --> 00:16:42,080
ambiguous I wish I was more athletic

339
00:16:44,410 --> 00:16:42,590
what

340
00:16:47,830 --> 00:16:44,420
I'll do now is I'll play a short clip

341
00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:47,840
and this is taken from the CBC show

342
00:16:54,970 --> 00:16:51,020
marketplace and this is I imagine it's a

343
00:16:56,530 --> 00:16:54,980
show designed to help protect consumer

344
00:16:58,660 --> 00:16:56,540
rights in Canada is that more or less

345
00:17:01,840 --> 00:16:58,670
what they do yeah it's a yeah it's a

346
00:17:03,820 --> 00:17:01,850
consumer advocacy show all right well

347
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:03,830
let me play a short clip from that in in

348
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:06,170
this clip it's where the chiropractor

349
00:17:16,030 --> 00:17:09,050
comes on to the stage to start to sell

350
00:17:18,310 --> 00:17:16,040
his product that's right the little

351
00:17:23,020 --> 00:17:18,320
wonder it's got their national debut on

352
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:23,030
the CBC next up a duo from Collingwood

353
00:17:27,310 --> 00:17:25,370
Ontario when meet us and his sidekick

354
00:17:29,470 --> 00:17:27,320
pitched their product they came looking

355
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:29,480
for a hundred thousand dragon dollar

356
00:17:33,970 --> 00:17:31,760
product is neural Connect and they came

357
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:33,980
armed with impressive claims I'm a

358
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:36,080
chiropractor and I've developed a

359
00:17:41,380 --> 00:17:38,510
technology to help people's backs get

360
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:41,390
better and stay better the devices I

361
00:17:45,730 --> 00:17:42,890
have developed are with a team of

362
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:45,740
physicists and they change the atomic

363
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:47,450
structure of the components of these

364
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:49,850
devices to cause the nervous system to

365
00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:52,730
respond when you're wearing them and as

366
00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:56,120
a result the muscles work better and the

367
00:18:00,790 --> 00:17:57,770
joints work better as well

368
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:00,800
to prove his point meatus experiments on

369
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:02,810
the dragon reach up like you're reaching

370
00:18:09,820 --> 00:18:05,570
up onto a shelf you gotta wonder though

371
00:18:14,830 --> 00:18:09,830
is this really science or showmanship he

372
00:18:16,650 --> 00:18:14,840
clips on his invention and now you'll

373
00:18:18,539 --> 00:18:16,660
see how much stronger you are that's

374
00:18:21,909 --> 00:18:18,549
crazy

375
00:18:25,140 --> 00:18:21,919
stronger and supposedly more balanced

376
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:25,150
the clips can cost 40 to 120 bucks

377
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:28,880
that's got the Dragons attention so bill

378
00:18:34,659 --> 00:18:31,280
he was making some pretty amazing claims

379
00:18:36,399 --> 00:18:34,669
and again folks I'll link to the to the

380
00:18:39,070 --> 00:18:36,409
article and the video so you can see

381
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:39,080
this all for yourself but as you saw and

382
00:18:43,180 --> 00:18:40,880
as I saw when we were watching this he

383
00:18:45,970 --> 00:18:43,190
was doing more or less the old balance

384
00:18:49,149 --> 00:18:45,980
tricks wasn't he yeah the the old

385
00:18:51,970 --> 00:18:49,159
applied kinesiology tre Assam which all

386
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:51,980
stem will stem from like the old snake

387
00:18:56,919 --> 00:18:55,010
or literally snake oil salesman way back

388
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:56,929
in the day the tricks they used to fool

389
00:19:02,380 --> 00:18:58,400
people into thinking that those pills

390
00:19:04,930 --> 00:19:02,390
were working and it's a classic example

391
00:19:06,909 --> 00:19:04,940
what he does if we have one of the

392
00:19:08,260 --> 00:19:06,919
volunteers they raise their army pushes

393
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:08,270
down and they're weak and of course he

394
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:09,919
applies these clips to their legs I

395
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:13,370
think on their trousers and then he's

396
00:19:20,350 --> 00:19:17,650
strong again but you were so outraged as

397
00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:20,360
Biggs where you actually wrote to

398
00:19:26,740 --> 00:19:24,110
marketplace yeah I mean because you know

399
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:26,750
dragon sin is on CBC which is an ash or

400
00:19:33,130 --> 00:19:30,650
national television station CBC

401
00:19:34,529 --> 00:19:33,140
marketplace is also on air as well you

402
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:34,539
know I contact them and say you know

403
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:37,970
you're a nun on your own station you

404
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:40,250
have something else that was promoted

405
00:19:46,779 --> 00:19:45,440
that was bunk you know you should do

406
00:19:48,370 --> 00:19:46,789
something but if you need to you know

407
00:19:51,340 --> 00:19:48,380
you can contact me I'll tell you how did

408
00:19:54,299 --> 00:19:51,350
you bunk it which they initially did

409
00:19:56,890 --> 00:19:54,309
they did call me in December to get some

410
00:20:01,980 --> 00:19:56,900
advice on how to go about debunking it

411
00:20:05,380 --> 00:20:01,990
and I suggested you know doing you know

412
00:20:08,620 --> 00:20:05,390
you know a small little study type of

413
00:20:10,060 --> 00:20:08,630
thing to show you know how to do like

414
00:20:11,620 --> 00:20:10,070
with double blinding and everything else

415
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:11,630
I made sure that they knew that they had

416
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:13,010
the double blinded and what that meant

417
00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:15,650
right of course and then I explained you

418
00:20:20,770 --> 00:20:17,150
know the arm thing you know how that

419
00:20:24,010 --> 00:20:20,780
worked and why it was it was just a scam

420
00:20:28,450 --> 00:20:24,020
at that point and they thanked me and

421
00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:28,460
then back in just a January had middle

422
00:20:32,259 --> 00:20:29,809
of January I think it was the 15th or

423
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:32,269
something they contacted me near

424
00:20:35,649 --> 00:20:33,769
like we know it's short notice but can

425
00:20:38,199 --> 00:20:35,659
you come down to Toronto which is like a

426
00:20:40,269 --> 00:20:38,209
three and a half hour trip mm-hmm

427
00:20:46,930 --> 00:20:40,279
to do some filming over the next two

428
00:20:50,409 --> 00:20:46,940
days that was like actually yeah this is

429
00:20:53,019 --> 00:20:50,419
I mean I must I'm giggling because it

430
00:20:55,299 --> 00:20:53,029
really does remind me of the situation I

431
00:20:57,999 --> 00:20:55,309
found myself in almost ten years ago

432
00:21:01,389 --> 00:20:58,009
here in Australia where I wrote to a

433
00:21:04,449 --> 00:21:01,399
network and said the story you showed on

434
00:21:05,859 --> 00:21:04,459
the Power Balance bands you know I don't

435
00:21:07,749 --> 00:21:05,869
think they really work and I can show

436
00:21:09,369 --> 00:21:07,759
you how and the next thing I knew I was

437
00:21:13,149 --> 00:21:09,379
on a plane heading for Adelaide to a

438
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:13,159
taping of TV show myself so it's

439
00:21:15,969 --> 00:21:14,570
interesting that all these years later

440
00:21:18,219 --> 00:21:15,979
you find yourself in a very similar

441
00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:18,229
situation you with a very similar

442
00:21:22,389 --> 00:21:19,849
product really yeah really

443
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:22,399
yeah yeah it's a bit of useless plastic

444
00:21:27,459 --> 00:21:25,039
or whatever that doesn't do anything

445
00:21:30,430 --> 00:21:27,469
obviously and the whole gimmick relies

446
00:21:31,779 --> 00:21:30,440
on these applied kinesiology tricks well

447
00:21:34,269 --> 00:21:31,789
let me play now the clip of the

448
00:21:38,049 --> 00:21:34,279
marketplace where you walk onto the

449
00:21:40,209 --> 00:21:38,059
stage Bell Nouveau wrote to he believes

450
00:21:40,899 --> 00:21:40,219
the dragons were scammed pick a card any

451
00:21:43,149 --> 00:21:40,909
card

452
00:21:47,229 --> 00:21:43,159
he should know he happens to be a

453
00:21:48,969 --> 00:21:47,239
magician and this is what you do this is

454
00:21:50,979 --> 00:21:48,979
absolutely amazing don't take your eyes

455
00:21:51,540 --> 00:21:50,989
off this here we go using the power of

456
00:21:55,539 --> 00:21:51,550
the mind

457
00:21:58,940 --> 00:21:55,549
[Music]

458
00:22:05,690 --> 00:21:58,950
and knows how sleight of hands can give

459
00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:05,700
the illusion of truth so this is where

460
00:22:15,499 --> 00:22:08,190
they film Dragon's Den it's not set up

461
00:22:22,190 --> 00:22:18,970
why did you email marketplace I was

462
00:22:25,369 --> 00:22:22,200
awestruck in like just I was completely

463
00:22:28,489 --> 00:22:25,379
befuddled that how the dragons were

464
00:22:30,919 --> 00:22:28,499
fooled so easily his magicians were kind

465
00:22:32,389 --> 00:22:30,929
of what's called honest liars were paid

466
00:22:33,919 --> 00:22:32,399
to lie to people you know we're

467
00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:33,929
deceiving you but what I saw was

468
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:37,110
deception without people knowing that

469
00:22:41,989 --> 00:22:39,330
they were being deceived it could be a

470
00:22:47,419 --> 00:22:41,999
common magician's trick and it's called

471
00:22:49,129 --> 00:22:47,429
misdirection yeah it's actually like a

472
00:22:51,289 --> 00:22:49,139
parlor trick a way back in the days

473
00:22:52,970 --> 00:22:51,299
snake oil salesmen used to use these

474
00:22:55,129 --> 00:22:52,980
tricks to fool people into believing

475
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:55,139
that you know whatever pill that they

476
00:23:01,789 --> 00:22:57,690
were being sold was given them strength

477
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:01,799
or you know make him feel better put

478
00:23:05,419 --> 00:23:03,450
your arm up yeah bill has his own

479
00:23:08,210 --> 00:23:05,429
explanation of how the Dragons could

480
00:23:10,970 --> 00:23:08,220
have been fooled see how easy that is to

481
00:23:13,369 --> 00:23:10,980
go down right then you did the thing you

482
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:13,379
posed to put the clip on yeah you can

483
00:23:17,269 --> 00:23:14,730
see like I'm putting a lot more pressure

484
00:23:19,249 --> 00:23:17,279
on you right is sometimes when you do

485
00:23:21,230 --> 00:23:19,259
the second time you're resisting a lot

486
00:23:23,149 --> 00:23:21,240
more but if I do it switch the angle to

487
00:23:25,399 --> 00:23:23,159
towards your body or more specifically

488
00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:25,409
towards your foot I can resist you can

489
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:29,100
resist and I can even yeah it's it's

490
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:30,210
something as simple as that

491
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:32,159
so you say he was playing tricks on the

492
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:33,929
Dragons I do I do

493
00:23:38,629 --> 00:23:36,450
well done bill that's great I mean it's

494
00:23:41,810 --> 00:23:38,639
good to hear you and folks you can see

495
00:23:43,879 --> 00:23:41,820
bill demonstrating what exactly was

496
00:23:46,369 --> 00:23:43,889
going on and I noticed in watching the

497
00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:46,379
rest of the marketplace story that the

498
00:23:52,149 --> 00:23:49,049
the Dragons ultimately didn't follow

499
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:52,159
through and didn't help support this

500
00:23:56,869 --> 00:23:55,200
chiropractor yeah that was that that was

501
00:23:59,600 --> 00:23:56,879
a good thing actually I was glad about

502
00:24:01,789 --> 00:23:59,610
that because we don't know for awhile

503
00:24:03,379 --> 00:24:01,799
because they even though on the show

504
00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:03,389
they can say you know hey we'll buy into

505
00:24:07,249 --> 00:24:05,700
this there's always that you know caveat

506
00:24:08,570 --> 00:24:07,259
of you know we'll look into it

507
00:24:12,260 --> 00:24:08,580
afterwards more

508
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:12,270
yeah and luckily you know they did yes

509
00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:14,730
so I think like I think the fact that on

510
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:16,500
the show that they were so easily fooled

511
00:24:21,590 --> 00:24:18,290
kind of gave it a little bit of

512
00:24:24,050 --> 00:24:21,600
credibility undue credibility I

513
00:24:26,660 --> 00:24:24,060
absolutely agree and it's all very well

514
00:24:28,180 --> 00:24:26,670
for marketplace to come up and then show

515
00:24:30,410 --> 00:24:28,190
obviously that it doesn't work

516
00:24:32,570 --> 00:24:30,420
unfortunately the Dragons Den went to

517
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:32,580
where and lots of people would naturally

518
00:24:37,010 --> 00:24:34,530
think this product works and probably

519
00:24:38,450 --> 00:24:37,020
went out and bought it so it's a pity

520
00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:38,460
that the Dragons weren't a little bit

521
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:40,260
more you know what they should have you

522
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:43,200
there on every episode just just to cast

523
00:24:46,130 --> 00:24:45,360
your skeptical eye I think well it's

524
00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:46,140
almost there mean I

525
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:47,580
they almost should have some people

526
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:49,290
vetting some of these people before they

527
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:51,810
even get to the Dragons you know I I

528
00:24:56,450 --> 00:24:53,730
agree but it's an interesting one that

529
00:24:59,060 --> 00:24:56,460
trick the applied kinesiology trick is

530
00:25:00,740 --> 00:24:59,070
very good when you think about it it

531
00:25:02,990 --> 00:25:00,750
really does fool a lot of people and

532
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:03,000
that's why companies like Power Balance

533
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:06,510
was so successful oh for sure it's a

534
00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:09,930
great magic trick it is it is that's

535
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:13,710
really what it is it really is well bill

536
00:25:18,830 --> 00:25:15,690
look thanks very much for doing that

537
00:25:20,450 --> 00:25:18,840
being prepared to go on the marketplace

538
00:25:24,110 --> 00:25:20,460
but more importantly I think writing

539
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:24,120
letting them know not only that your

540
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:26,010
displeasure but also letting them know

541
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:27,930
that you could shed some light on this

542
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:30,210
and I think that's very important I I

543
00:25:37,790 --> 00:25:35,760
agree silent voices don't do much well

544
00:25:40,130 --> 00:25:37,800
folks again I'll link to everything that

545
00:25:41,870 --> 00:25:40,140
we've been discussing about this whole

546
00:25:45,380 --> 00:25:41,880
situation you can see the video for

547
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:45,390
yourself and be outraged just just as we

548
00:25:49,310 --> 00:25:47,310
were and then you can check out all of

549
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:49,320
the bills activities plus his

550
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:51,330
entertainment well bill all the way over

551
00:25:57,220 --> 00:25:54,450
there in Windsor Ontario thank you very

552
00:26:16,880 --> 00:25:57,230
much thank you Richard

553
00:26:20,390 --> 00:26:19,250
in Redford here if I can have a minute

554
00:26:22,490 --> 00:26:20,400
of your time I'd like to shamelessly

555
00:26:24,590 --> 00:26:22,500
plug my new book it's called

556
00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:24,600
investigating ghosts the scientific

557
00:26:28,730 --> 00:26:27,030
search for spirits examines ghost

558
00:26:30,740 --> 00:26:28,740
hunting in ghost investigations from

559
00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:30,750
historical cultural and evidence-based

560
00:26:35,810 --> 00:26:33,000
perspective from the Victorian era to

561
00:26:37,910 --> 00:26:35,820
modern TV ghost hunters it is in a way a

562
00:26:39,650 --> 00:26:37,920
follow-up to my 2010 book scientific

563
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:39,660
paranormal investigation how to solve

564
00:26:43,180 --> 00:26:41,970
unexplained mysteries that book was more

565
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:43,190
general covering everything from

566
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:45,690
psychics to crop circles to monsters and

567
00:26:50,270 --> 00:26:47,970
ghosts but I realized the ghosts are a

568
00:26:52,159 --> 00:26:50,280
special category not only are ghosts the

569
00:26:53,870 --> 00:26:52,169
most popular paranormal pursuit but

570
00:26:55,850 --> 00:26:53,880
ghost hunting also has its own set of

571
00:26:58,130 --> 00:26:55,860
assumptions and challenges the book will

572
00:27:01,600 --> 00:26:58,140
be available soon for under 20 bucks and

573
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:03,430
for more information on the book and me

574
00:27:06,580 --> 00:27:05,330
check out Benjamin Radford com

575
00:27:23,340 --> 00:27:06,590
please check it out Thanks

576
00:27:36,190 --> 00:27:27,280
it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi

577
00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:36,200
Robertson hello everyone

578
00:27:42,130 --> 00:27:38,360
Heidi Robertson here from the Northern

579
00:27:44,890 --> 00:27:42,140
Rivers vaccination supporters a tragic

580
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:44,900
story broke today the 8th of February

581
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:48,770
2018 about the death of a Queensland man

582
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:52,250
from diphtheria diphtheria is not a

583
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:54,370
disease we hear about much these days

584
00:28:01,780 --> 00:27:57,760
thankfully thanks to a very successful

585
00:28:03,910 --> 00:28:01,790
vaccine the Australian vaccination

586
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:03,920
skeptics Network gets a mention in the

587
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:07,010
article and thankfully not in a positive

588
00:28:13,450 --> 00:28:11,570
light despite the tragedy of the case it

589
00:28:15,820 --> 00:28:13,460
is at least heartening to see

590
00:28:18,130 --> 00:28:15,830
journalists who no longer contact the

591
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:18,140
Avs End for their opinions on stories

592
00:28:23,530 --> 00:28:21,410
relating to vaccination I must mention

593
00:28:26,350 --> 00:28:23,540
that that is largely due to pro

594
00:28:29,290 --> 00:28:26,360
vaccination activists and groups like

595
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:29,300
stop the AVN who have brought up the

596
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:31,370
issue of false balance with journalists

597
00:28:38,890 --> 00:28:35,170
whenever contacted about a story so

598
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:38,900
congratulations to mark Rigby of ABCDE

599
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:41,930
you for reporting on this story without

600
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:46,240
consulting rabid anti-vaccination groups

601
00:28:52,030 --> 00:28:49,730
here's the article quote diphtheria

602
00:28:55,390 --> 00:28:52,040
death shows Queensland is failing to

603
00:28:58,030 --> 00:28:55,400
properly vaccinate AMA warns by mark

604
00:29:00,370 --> 00:28:58,040
Rigby the death of a Far North

605
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:00,380
Queensland man from diphtheria is a sign

606
00:29:04,540 --> 00:29:02,090
the state is failing to properly

607
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:04,550
vaccinate the community the Australian

608
00:29:11,470 --> 00:29:08,720
Medical Association or AMA says the man

609
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:11,480
who was in his 20s and not vaccinated

610
00:29:15,820 --> 00:29:13,730
against the disease was flown from

611
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:15,830
Cairns hospital to brisbin's Prince

612
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:18,320
Charles Hospital in a critical condition

613
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:21,890
on January the 24th and on Wednesday

614
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:23,690
authorities confirmed

615
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:26,960
he had since died it is the state's

616
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:29,210
first recorded death from the bacterial

617
00:29:36,850 --> 00:29:34,490
disease since 2011 diphtheria causes

618
00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:36,860
severe inflammation of the nose throat

619
00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:40,129
and windpipe but is considered rare in

620
00:29:44,789 --> 00:29:42,110
most developed countries because of

621
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:44,799
widespread vaccination programs

622
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:46,970
Queensland Health said the case was

623
00:29:51,519 --> 00:29:49,370
acquired locally and the department last

624
00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:51,529
month tracked down five people who had

625
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:53,840
been in close contact with the man to

626
00:29:59,200 --> 00:29:55,850
ensure they have not contracted the

627
00:30:01,330 --> 00:29:59,210
disease dr. Richard kid from AMA

628
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:01,340
Queensland said the case highlighted the

629
00:30:08,019 --> 00:30:03,440
risk of not being vaccinated against

630
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:08,029
rare diseases quote in the early 1900s

631
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:09,769
diphtheria caused more deaths in

632
00:30:14,499 --> 00:30:11,690
Australia than any other infectious

633
00:30:16,810 --> 00:30:14,509
disease he said it's a very powerful

634
00:30:18,730 --> 00:30:16,820
story about the value of the vaccine

635
00:30:21,070 --> 00:30:18,740
because it's virtually disappeared and

636
00:30:23,649 --> 00:30:21,080
no vaccinated person has died from

637
00:30:24,340 --> 00:30:23,659
diphtheria in Australia in the past 20

638
00:30:27,730 --> 00:30:24,350
years

639
00:30:29,710 --> 00:30:27,740
end quote he said it was concerning that

640
00:30:32,499 --> 00:30:29,720
diphtheria still claimed lives in

641
00:30:34,659 --> 00:30:32,509
Australia quote it means that we are

642
00:30:37,810 --> 00:30:34,669
failing as a community to properly

643
00:30:39,399 --> 00:30:37,820
vaccinate people he said one of the

644
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:39,409
reasons it's not spreading and we're

645
00:30:44,259 --> 00:30:41,570
just getting the isolated cases is

646
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:44,269
because the herd immunity is pretty good

647
00:30:49,509 --> 00:30:47,450
but it should be better if it was better

648
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:49,519
we wouldn't even be seeing those

649
00:30:57,279 --> 00:30:53,289
isolated cases happening and to quote

650
00:30:59,080 --> 00:30:57,289
dr. Kidd said the AMA of Queensland was

651
00:31:01,480 --> 00:30:59,090
concerned that claims made by the

652
00:31:03,549 --> 00:31:01,490
anti-vaccination movement were

653
00:31:06,909 --> 00:31:03,559
contributing to lower vaccination rates

654
00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:06,919
in Queensland quote the anti vaccination

655
00:31:12,970 --> 00:31:10,129
network or the Australian vaccination

656
00:31:15,490 --> 00:31:12,980
skeptics Network has been very active in

657
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:15,500
Queensland in the past few years and has

658
00:31:19,860 --> 00:31:17,450
been affecting in some areas the

659
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:19,870
vaccination rates through misinformation

660
00:31:23,919 --> 00:31:21,919
parents who want to do the right thing

661
00:31:25,869 --> 00:31:23,929
for their children are always looking

662
00:31:28,210 --> 00:31:25,879
for information to help them decide what

663
00:31:29,919 --> 00:31:28,220
is the right thing to do and the

664
00:31:32,830 --> 00:31:29,929
misinformation from the anti vaccination

665
00:31:34,869 --> 00:31:32,840
Network has led some parents to not

666
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:34,879
vaccinate their children which is

667
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:36,730
awfully worrying

668
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:39,370
and quote Queensland Health issued a

669
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:41,530
statement to the ABC offering

670
00:31:49,770 --> 00:31:44,250
condolences to the man's family and

671
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:49,780
quote and it is a very sad case let's

672
00:32:01,110 --> 00:31:52,570
hope we do not hear of any more such

673
00:32:02,390 --> 00:32:01,120
cases in the future this has been highly

674
00:32:05,580 --> 00:32:02,400
Robertson from the Northern Rivers

675
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:05,590
vaccination supporters you can find us

676
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:10,330
on Facebook Twitter and at an RBS dot

677
00:32:31,020 --> 00:32:13,450
info until next time bye bye

678
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:34,210
hey svenska skeptical elevator elevator

679
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:36,650
scope forbidding in the battle none

680
00:32:41,380 --> 00:32:38,810
hanger of the skeptic zone with an ox or

681
00:32:43,870 --> 00:32:41,390
a fearful dog pop science quiz or

682
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:43,880
skeptical Kevin Thomas Valley Quinn

683
00:32:48,580 --> 00:32:45,890
Povey very primitive Oh from Tess

684
00:32:51,220 --> 00:32:48,590
efforts for 9 before free ulica you call

685
00:32:53,050 --> 00:32:51,230
for any a hunter melanda top gone warmly

686
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:53,060
bow installed our entities non-local

687
00:33:00,340 --> 00:32:55,970
Fanning boffin to start I'm 12 your

688
00:33:02,860 --> 00:33:00,350
bottom add a new hello all skeptics in

689
00:33:05,230 --> 00:33:02,870
Sweden I'm sure you already know that

690
00:33:07,180 --> 00:33:05,240
the Swedish skeptics Association not

691
00:33:09,820 --> 00:33:07,190
only is a big fan of the skeptic zone

692
00:33:12,010 --> 00:33:09,830
but that we also organize lectures pop

693
00:33:18,670 --> 00:33:12,020
science quiz and skeptics in the pub all

694
00:33:20,980 --> 00:33:18,680
over the country go to WWE FTSE to see

695
00:33:23,290 --> 00:33:20,990
what our 7 local chapters are up to and

696
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:23,300
if you live in a place where there is no

697
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:25,690
local chapter why not start one yourself

698
00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:43,690
[Music]

699
00:33:48,890 --> 00:33:47,000
now from the Department of just when you

700
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:48,900
thought it couldn't get any more new Pia

701
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,050
The Sydney Morning Herald on Friday the

702
00:33:59,600 --> 00:33:54,720
9th of February tells us on the front

703
00:34:04,400 --> 00:33:59,610
page a story by Esther Han doctors

704
00:34:06,970 --> 00:34:04,410
horrified by bizarre TGA lists TGA means

705
00:34:10,580 --> 00:34:06,980
the Therapeutic Goods Administration

706
00:34:12,830 --> 00:34:10,590
missus the government body supposedly

707
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:12,840
oversees therapeutics goods in Australia

708
00:34:18,530 --> 00:34:15,290
meaning devices drugs and so on

709
00:34:22,340 --> 00:34:18,540
she says hundreds of bizarre health

710
00:34:25,820 --> 00:34:22,350
claims such as quote terrifies kidney

711
00:34:29,060 --> 00:34:25,830
essence end quote and quote opens body

712
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:29,070
orifices end quote will be approved by

713
00:34:33,350 --> 00:34:30,510
the therapeutics Goods Administration

714
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:33,360
and appear on complementary medicine

715
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:36,090
labels under new laws being pushed by

716
00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:38,010
the federal government horrifying

717
00:34:42,980 --> 00:34:41,129
doctors in July last year the TGA began

718
00:34:44,510 --> 00:34:42,990
developing a list of quote permitted

719
00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:44,520
indications end quote

720
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:46,470
that would restrict vitamin and herbal

721
00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:48,720
medicine companies to making only

722
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,609
government-approved health claims on

723
00:34:55,369 --> 00:34:52,560
their products once the Therapeutic

724
00:34:58,250 --> 00:34:55,379
Goods Administration bill passed and it

725
00:35:01,250 --> 00:34:58,260
goes on to say quote that TGA held

726
00:35:04,130 --> 00:35:01,260
industry consultations and just lost the

727
00:35:06,410 --> 00:35:04,140
plot it gave them license to deceive in

728
00:35:08,660 --> 00:35:06,420
quote says Alan Asher a regulatory

729
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:08,670
expert and former Deputy Chair of the

730
00:35:14,090 --> 00:35:10,560
Australian Competition and Consumer

731
00:35:16,420 --> 00:35:14,100
Commission and the article goes on with

732
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:16,430
a list a little list of some of the

733
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:19,650
terms being put forward hard to swallow

734
00:35:25,220 --> 00:35:22,050
it says here are some of the curious

735
00:35:28,210 --> 00:35:25,230
finds on the TJ's latest draft list of

736
00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:28,220
permitted indications balanced

737
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:29,400
aggravated

738
00:35:42,290 --> 00:35:37,710
Vater enriched kidney Jing ji ng promote

739
00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:42,300
water metabolization in gender fluid dis

740
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:47,030
inhibit water soften hardness

741
00:35:54,050 --> 00:35:51,330
extinguished damp cold expel stagnant

742
00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:54,060
heat and later on in the paper we have

743
00:36:00,030 --> 00:35:56,760
an opinion piece by dr. Ken Harvey

744
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:00,040
how would you like to quote stimulate

745
00:36:06,690 --> 00:36:03,280
your Chi in quote or perhaps quote

746
00:36:09,630 --> 00:36:06,700
replenish your essence man could these

747
00:36:12,059 --> 00:36:09,640
one-liners are among more than 1,000 the

748
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:12,069
therapeutics Goods Administration says

749
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:14,410
complementary medicine makers can put on

750
00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:16,720
their products products that for the

751
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:18,520
most part have no scientific evidence to

752
00:36:23,099 --> 00:36:21,250
prove their worth in the face of growing

753
00:36:25,650 --> 00:36:23,109
concern about the marketing of such

754
00:36:29,819 --> 00:36:25,660
products the TGA has published a soon to

755
00:36:31,410 --> 00:36:29,829
be enforced list of 1019 quote permitted

756
00:36:33,809 --> 00:36:31,420
indications end quote

757
00:36:36,900 --> 00:36:33,819
that it says the industry can use on

758
00:36:39,420 --> 00:36:36,910
labels but the TGA allowed the industry

759
00:36:41,550 --> 00:36:39,430
to come up with the list itself and then

760
00:36:42,900 --> 00:36:41,560
endorse it despite concerns from

761
00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:42,910
consumer advocates and health

762
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:44,950
professionals who argued the list

763
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:47,170
endorses pseudoscience

764
00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:49,119
they also said it encouraged the

765
00:36:53,250 --> 00:36:51,310
industry to evade the need to have

766
00:36:57,180 --> 00:36:53,260
scientific proof and would boost

767
00:37:00,210 --> 00:36:57,190
consumer spending now more than 4.5

768
00:37:02,430 --> 00:37:00,220
billion dollars a year on complementary

769
00:37:04,290 --> 00:37:02,440
medicines only a hundred and forty

770
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:04,300
claims on the list require the

771
00:37:09,809 --> 00:37:06,609
manufacturer to have specific evidence

772
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:09,819
that backs them up for the rest only

773
00:37:17,309 --> 00:37:12,910
evidence for quote traditional and quote

774
00:37:19,230 --> 00:37:17,319
use is required use for more than 75

775
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:19,240
years in an alternative medical

776
00:37:24,450 --> 00:37:21,760
tradition such as traditional Chinese

777
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:24,460
medicine Western herbalism homeopathy

778
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:27,730
and so on the TGA trusts the

779
00:37:31,950 --> 00:37:29,200
manufacturer to hold the necessary

780
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:31,960
evidence it's only checked if a

781
00:37:37,290 --> 00:37:33,730
complaint is submitted or the TGA

782
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:37,300
conducts a post marketing review but

783
00:37:43,380 --> 00:37:39,760
this trust in the industry is misplaced

784
00:37:45,540 --> 00:37:43,390
the TGA zone work shows regulatory

785
00:37:50,210 --> 00:37:45,550
breaches are on the rise when it comes

786
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:50,220
to complementary medicines in 2014-15

787
00:37:57,870 --> 00:37:54,730
73% of the 212 cases investigated were

788
00:38:02,849 --> 00:37:57,880
found to be in breach that jumped to 80%

789
00:38:05,819 --> 00:38:02,859
of the 473 cases investigated in 2015-16

790
00:38:08,130 --> 00:38:05,829
and the most common problem was failure

791
00:38:10,410 --> 00:38:08,140
to produce evidence to support product

792
00:38:13,170 --> 00:38:10,420
claims critics one

793
00:38:15,329 --> 00:38:13,180
labels to at least carry advice making

794
00:38:17,789 --> 00:38:15,339
it clear any claims for these products

795
00:38:20,490 --> 00:38:17,799
are based on alternative health theories

796
00:38:23,099 --> 00:38:20,500
that have not been validated by modern

797
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:23,109
medical science but this was knocked

798
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:25,770
back Australia is a multicultural and

799
00:38:32,039 --> 00:38:29,170
pluralistic society and it's appropriate

800
00:38:34,770 --> 00:38:32,049
that we respect understand and allow

801
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:34,780
access to traditional alternative and

802
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:37,119
complementary medical traditions and

803
00:38:41,970 --> 00:38:40,210
products however it is also important

804
00:38:43,890 --> 00:38:41,980
that we restrain purveyors of these

805
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:43,900
medicines from taking advantage of

806
00:38:48,420 --> 00:38:46,450
consumer ignorant and that we protect

807
00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:48,430
consumers from misleading and deceptive

808
00:38:55,799 --> 00:38:53,440
claims in Harvey is an associate

809
00:38:58,440 --> 00:38:55,809
professor at Monash University and a

810
00:39:00,569 --> 00:38:58,450
choice consumer representative and that

811
00:39:02,579 --> 00:39:00,579
story an opinion piece come from the

812
00:39:06,690 --> 00:39:02,589
Sydney Morning Herald published on

813
00:39:10,090 --> 00:39:06,700
Friday February the 9th 2018 and this

814
00:39:30,300 --> 00:39:10,100
reflects very poorly on the TGA indeed

815
00:39:34,540 --> 00:39:32,740
thank you for listening to the skeptic

816
00:39:36,340 --> 00:39:34,550
zone thank you to those people who

817
00:39:39,850 --> 00:39:36,350
support the skeptic zone via patreon or

818
00:39:42,220 --> 00:39:39,860
PayPal are much appreciated and as ever

819
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:42,230
and you've heard it for me many times

820
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:45,530
it's people like you that keep this show

821
00:39:49,780 --> 00:39:47,330
on the Internet

822
00:39:52,690 --> 00:39:49,790
and in some cases on the air because I

823
00:39:54,820 --> 00:39:52,700
know occasionally radio stations use

824
00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:54,830
interviews and bits and pieces from the

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skeptics earn which I love - I'd love to

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hear about them a big thank you to Brian

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Kirby from 502 conversations who

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interviewed me during my visit to Las

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Vegas last year it's a TV style

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00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:14,120
interview and if you want to spend the

831
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next 40 minutes listening to me drone on

832
00:40:22,540 --> 00:40:20,090
I'll put a link in the show notes a very

833
00:40:25,540 --> 00:40:22,550
interesting experience being interviewed

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00:40:27,130 --> 00:40:25,550
in in a hotel room as it happened by

835
00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:27,140
Brian Kirby and he does lots of

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interviews of very interesting people

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00:40:34,540 --> 00:40:32,330
mm-hmm and me thank you Brian

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00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:34,550
I really enjoyed the experience and of

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00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:35,810
course thank you to those people who

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00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:37,760
continue to support the fundraising

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00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:40,250
campaign for Britt Hermes again I'll put

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00:40:43,810 --> 00:40:41,690
a link in the show notes that's going

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00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:43,820
very well indeed and sending a strong

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00:40:49,090 --> 00:40:45,920
message to those people who try to

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00:40:52,510 --> 00:40:49,100
silence skeptics by a threatening legal

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00:40:54,670 --> 00:40:52,520
action but for this week this is Richard

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00:41:00,940 --> 00:40:54,680
Saunders signing off from Sydney

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00:41:03,730 --> 00:41:00,950
Australia you've been listening to the

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00:41:10,390 --> 00:41:03,740
skeptic zone podcast please visit our

850
00:41:13,210 --> 00:41:10,400
website at wwlp.com tax and to access

851
00:41:16,810 --> 00:41:13,220
the bat catalog of episodes going back

852
00:41:19,630 --> 00:41:16,820
to 2008 you can follow the skeptic zone

853
00:41:22,180 --> 00:41:19,640
podcast on twitter at skeptic zone

854
00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:22,190
visit our facebook page or leave a

855
00:41:26,430 --> 00:41:24,190
review on itunes

856
00:41:30,329 --> 00:41:26,440
you can also support the sceptic zone

857
00:41:32,910 --> 00:41:30,339
via patreon or PayPal you can be part of

858
00:41:37,289 --> 00:41:32,920
the show by downloading the voice byte

859
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:37,299
app at voice byte calm and using the

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00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:40,690
hashtag skeptic zone the skeptic zone

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00:41:45,779 --> 00:41:43,410
podcast is an independent production

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00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:45,789
reviews and opinions expressed on the

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00:41:50,250 --> 00:41:47,920
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

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00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:50,260
of Australian skeptics or any other